Additional menu
The Pickleball Lab
The Pickleball Lab
Podcast: Episode 2 – Neutralize Bangers in Pickleball, 1 Handed vs 2 Handed Backhand Dink, Handling Pro Returns & More!
Show Notes
Introduction — What Problem This Episode Solves
A lot of pickleball players feel stuck when they face speed and pressure. They struggle against “bangers,” finding it hard to counter from the kitchen line against an opponent who just keeps driving.
In this episode, Josh and Elliott break down how to handle aggressive players, when to speed up versus when to keep dinking, how to deal with deep, hard returns, and when to use a one-handed or two-handed backhand dink. They also cover split-step timing, positioning after the serve, and why improving your mindset in rec play is one of the fastest ways to grow your game from 3.5 to 5.0+.
Key Takeaways (Quick Summary)
- Neutralizing bangers starts with the right mindset when you play them in rec play: play to improve, not just to win.
- If a ball is shoulder high, let it go — many power players hit more balls out than opponents realize or they realize. When a banger sees a ball go out, it gets in their head and they’re likely to start hitting a lot slower or even stop totally if they’ve seen a lot go out.
- Against strong, deep returns, don’t force a low-percentage third-shot drop; often it’s better to “clear” the ball with a controlled drive.
- Your serve often determines how dangerous the return will be.
- Two-handed backhand dinks are best when you can get behind the ball and are in control of the point.
- One-handed backhand dinks are better when you are stretched, late, or absorbing pace.
- Many players speed up from bad positions; smart speed-ups come when you are balanced and the ball is attackable.
- Resetting to the middle or to your opponent’s partner can break pressure and disrupt rhythm.
- Split-stepping should happen on nearly every opponent contact, not after.
- Singles can improve your doubles game because it forces better movement, drives, and full-court coverage.
Episode Breakdown
Why Singles Can Make You Better at Doubles
The episode starts with Elliott recapping his first singles tournament experience. Even though the results weren’t ideal, the experience highlighted an important truth: singles exposes weaknesses quickly and forces players to develop better movement, drives, and shot tolerance.
Josh explains that while the idea of “play singles to get better at doubles” may sound strange at first, it makes a lot more sense over time. In singles, you have to cover the full court, hit quality drives, and survive pressure on your own. If you can do that well, covering half the court in doubles becomes much easier. For players looking to improve their serve, return, third-shot drive, and court coverage, singles can be one of the fastest development tools available.
How to Handle Hard and Deep Returns
One of the biggest coaching questions in this episode is how to consistently hit a quality third shot when your opponent is returning deep and with pace.
Josh’s first point is simple: if the return is consistently strong, you need to look at your serve first. At the 4.0+ level, the serve is no longer just about getting the ball in. It should be deep, fast, and targeted — ideally into the body or toward the backhand. The better your serve, the harder it is for your opponent to tee off on the return.
When a return still comes back hard and deep, Josh recommends not forcing a difficult third-shot drop. Instead, he explains a “hockey clear” concept: drive the ball deep enough to neutralize the pressure and get a more manageable fourth ball. Rather than trying to win the point immediately, the goal is to clear the difficult return, reset the rally, and give yourself a better chance to work forward.
He also shares a valuable positioning detail: if someone is consistently hitting deep returns, start farther back after your serve. Many players get in trouble because they serve, move in too far, and then have to backpedal to hit their third shot. Starting at or behind the baseline can make those deep returns much easier to handle.
One-Handed vs. Two-Handed Backhand Dinks
Josh and Elliott then shift into the soft game and discuss one of the more nuanced technical topics in modern pickleball: when to use a one-handed versus two-handed backhand dink.
Josh’s framework is based on control and positioning. If you can get behind the ball, stay balanced, and are not dealing with heavy pace, the two-handed backhand dink can be a great option because it gives you stability and control. But if you are stretched, reaching, or having to absorb pressure, the one-handed backhand becomes the better choice.
This is an important distinction because many players try to force a two-handed dink in situations where they are late or out of position, which often leads to pop-ups. The two-hander works best when you are in control of the exchange. The one-hander is often the better emergency or pressure-management tool.
Josh also makes a broader point that many players over-prioritize dinking too early in their development. Until players reach a certain level, a large percentage of rallies are still decided in the serve, return, and transition phases. In other words, dinking matters — but many rec players are drilling it far more than match play actually demands.
How to Neutralize “Bangers” and Use Them to Improve
This is one of the most valuable parts of the episode for rec players. Josh reframes the entire conversation around bangers by arguing that the goal should not simply be to survive them — it should be to use them as a development opportunity in rec play.
A lot of players respond to hard hitters by blocking everything, but Josh points out that constant blocking often gives those players exactly what they want: an easy path to the kitchen and more offensive rhythm. Instead, he recommends improving the skills that actually punish low-level aggression.
The first is recognizing which balls are going out. His cue is simple: shoulder high, let it fly. Many players bail out power hitters by volleying balls that were clearly sailing long. Learning to let those go forces bangers to adjust and often makes them less effective almost immediately.
The second skill is learning to attack the right balls back. If the drive is attackable, players should work on volleying it firmly instead of simply blocking it. This may feel uncomfortable at first, but Josh emphasizes that discomfort is not a sign that you are practicing the wrong skill. It may even be evidence you’re practicing the correct one.
The deeper lesson here is mental. In rec play, Josh encourages players to stop using games to protect their ego/insecurity and start using them as opportunities to improve. If you only play to win, you may avoid the shots and situations you most need to practice. But if you use those games as exposure to pace, pressure, and uncomfortable contacts, your ceiling will rise much faster.
When to Speed Up vs. When to Keep Dinking
Another key section of the episode focuses on a common mistake at the 3.5–4.5 level: speeding up too often, and usually at the wrong time.
Josh explains that the best speed-ups usually happen when the ball is high enough and attackable, especially out of the air. If the ball is below net height or still sitting too far inside the kitchen, attacking often becomes low percentage. In those moments, patience is usually the smarter play.
He also points out that many off-the-bounce speed-ups at lower levels are really desperation shots. Players feel pressure, get uncomfortable, and rush an attack instead of staying composed. That’s why both balance and positioning matter so much. If you are off balance, stretched out, or reacting late, it is usually not the right ball to speed up.
Elliott adds that players should look closely at court positioning and body control before attacking. Smart speed-ups happen when you are stable, set, and ready — not when you are reaching or scrambling. In many cases, the better play is simply to continue dinking until you get a more attackable ball.
How to Break Pressure and Reset the Right Way
A subtle but advanced concept from this episode is how to avoid feeding the same opponent over and over when you are under pressure.
Josh explains that when one player is applying consistent dink pressure, many rec players keep sending the ball right back to them. That creates rhythm, confidence, and predictable patterns for the aggressor. Instead, players should learn to reset to the middle or send the ball to the other opponent to disrupt the pattern.
This is especially useful when someone is building pressure crosscourt. Rather than continually defending against the same person’s best ball, redirecting the dink can remove their rhythm and buy you time to recover. It is a small tactical adjustment that can make a big difference in kitchen exchanges.
Split-Step Timing and Ready Position
The episode closes with one of the most important footwork topics in the game: the split step.
Josh explains that players should split step on nearly every opponent contact. The key is timing it so that your feet are landing as your opponent strikes the ball — not after. If you land late, the ball is already on you, and your movement options become much more limited.
He also emphasizes the importance of a proactive ready position, especially against hard hitters. Keeping the paddle slightly farther out in front helps players attack more effectively and contact the ball earlier. That not only improves reaction time, but also creates better angles and reduces the likelihood of hitting into the net.
Skill-Building Drills from the Episode
1. Banger Drill
Purpose: Improve counter ability on 4th’s, 6th’s, etc.
Positioning:
- One player at the kitchen line, other player at baseline, straight ahead.
How to do it:
- Baseline player hits drives, focusing on hitting a good drive
- Kitchen player works on hard counters
- Baseline player continues to drive until the point is over
- Kitchen player continues to counter until the point is over
- Note: baseline player will get a good 3rd shot drive normally but after that, they will be playing outside of what we would generally agree on are sound pickleball principles aka they will be driving every single ball. Just remember this is not how you will play in real games. But focus on hitting good drives anyway. This will teach you how to control your drive.
Reps:
- 5 minutes then switch positions
Checkpoint:
- 2 hours of countering should be enough to see good progress
- 5 hours of countering will be enough to get comfortable
- 10+ hours of countering to set yourself up so that you feel confident in countering
Final Thoughts
Episode 2 is a strong roadmap for players who feel overwhelmed by pace, pressured in dink exchanges, or unsure when to attack versus reset. Josh and Elliott simplify some of the most frustrating parts of the game by showing that many of these problems are connected: serve quality affects returns, balance affects speed-ups, and mindset affects everything.
If you can learn to handle bangers without panic, choose the right dink based on pressure, clear difficult returns instead of forcing low-percentage drops, and improve your split-step timing, you’ll become a much tougher player to break down. For anyone trying to move from 3.5 to 5.0+, this episode gives both the tactical answers and the mental framework to make that jump.
Transcript
Josh (00:00)
All right guys, what’s going on? Welcome to the Pickleball Lab Coaching Podcast. As always, I’m Josh, and I’ve got Elliott here. We’re going to jump into some questions today, get all your coaching questions and hopefully get you some good answers to help you grow your game. So Elliott, how you been doing?
Elliott (00:16)
Good man, how are you?
Josh (00:17)
Yeah, doing really well. Did you play in that tournament? The Pasco, the Fracas?
Elliott (00:23)
I played my first singles. It was really fun. I played singles one time to prep for it before that. So I went 0 and 5, but I had some—I mean, they were all like top players, good players in the area. One of my friends was in it and he was beating me 9-1 and I came back 10-9 on him and then lost 12-10. That was still a victory for me because I came back and was up a point. In the first round bracket, I was up 8-4 against a pretty good guy—you could tell he plays singles all the time. I have a tennis background, so I didn’t do too bad. I just have to get a better two-handed backhand. Regardless, I was up 8-4 and then I lost 11-8. But I was still happy. If I just continue, get better at singles, get a better backhand drive, it should be fun.
Josh (01:19)
Yeah. Was he just hitting to your backhand over and over?
Elliott (01:21)
Yeah, and it’s weaker. I mean, I hit it too close to my body. I think I get it crunched up rather than extending out and creating some space. So I just have to drill. I’m drilling that in the next month or two and I’ll be back in the singles again.
Josh (01:38)
When a buddy of mine said he had talked to a coach—and this is a while ago—and he said, “How do I get better at doubles?” and the coach was like, “Get better at singles.” And I was like, well, that doesn’t make any sense. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. And then over the years, it’s really turned out to be true because you’re working on that drive. And that drive in the first four balls is like crucial: serves are a drive, returns are a drive, the third can be a drive. We talked about this in the last podcast—the fourth is drive-ish, right? Like a volley out of the air or off the bounce when you’re at the kitchen line. So I get it now, man. And if you can move and cover the full pickleball court and hit quality shots, you can definitely cover your half. So it makes a lot of sense to me.
Elliott (02:16)
Yeah, for sure. It was a good experience. I had no partner to make mad or nothing like that. It was just me; it lives and dies with you.
Josh (02:33)
Yeah, that’s awesome. Let’s jump into some questions.
Elliott (02:33)
Cool, so it seems like returns have a lot more pace these days—like people you can tell are really working on returns—and they’re a lot deeper. So how do you consistently have a good third shot when returns are coming pretty hard?
Josh (02:46)
Yeah. That’s actually a really good question. I think the first thing you need to think about is why was that return so strong? Was it deep and hard because they got lucky, or did you give them something too easy?
You know, at like a 5.0, 5.5 level, even 4.5, if you can control your serve really well, you need to be serving deep. You need to be serving hard and you really need to be serving either into the body or the person’s backhand. Now that gets a little tricky because you’ve got people that kind of run around for their forehand. As the point progresses and the point ends, you have to remember how they reacted to your serve. There’s stages here.
I would say for like two out of three, you’re just working on serving deep, maybe three out of four, you’re working on serving hard. And then from four to five, you’re trying to hit a spot, right? So you’re trying to hit the backhand or you’re trying to hit into the body. From a five-plus, then you’re starting to try to figure out how did they react to my serve and how do I adjust if they’re running around it? And if you hit to their backhand and they run around and hit on their forehand, you need to serve harder to their backhand, then pull them closer to the sideline or the center line, depending on where they’re shading for their forehand, then start hitting them down the line, right? Or to the edge, hitting away from them. So now you get into this whole mind game where returns should not be coming back at you really, really hard.
If you let them tee off, you’re going to have tough returns. That’s the first thing: why did they get a good return? Was it because your serve was not aggressive enough? Gone are the days of like, “we’re just going to get the ball in.” That’s 2.0, 2.5. After that, you’re trying to impact their return. If they do happen to hit a good return—hard and deep—and you did everything you could to affect it with the serve, that’s fine. Typically at that point, I’m not trying to hit a third shot drop right there. I think that’s going to be really difficult to drop. You’re trying to clear the third at that point.
What I mean by clear is think about hockey. In hockey, when they have a penalty and they just clear the puck out and they hit it to the other end of the rink, right? That’s basically what you’re trying to do with your drive. You’re trying to nullify that return by just hitting a reset drive. The ball gets over the net and you see a different ball. You do not want to try and drop that return. You want to try and drive, clear that really good return, and get a fourth back that’s a lot more manageable.
Elliott (05:59)
Cool, so basically work on my serves so I don’t give them an easy return. And then if they’re giving me a lot of pressure and they’re like really deep, strong returns, you’re saying to drive more rather than drop.
Josh (06:11)
Yeah, because if they’re hitting a strong return, typically it’s deep, but typically it’s really hard too. If you get a deep ball that’s not hit very hard, those are relatively easy to handle; you might be able to even drop that. I probably still wouldn’t. I drive anything at the baseline just because I feel like it’s just too far to drop. Not that I can’t, I would just rather not. Let me get another ball and nine times out of ten, that’s going to be much closer.
Another thing that took me a while to figure out is if you look at the pros on the men’s side, they actually start on the baseline when they serve. I for the longest time was starting like three or four feet off. They actually start on the baseline and just reset themselves right there. If you notice someone is particularly good at hitting deep returns, reset that position to like three feet off—just start further back so that you’re not backpedaling. Just drive it, clear it, get another ball. That ball’s probably going to be way closer, drop it, and then you’re good to go from there.
Elliott (07:56)
Yeah, a hundred percent agree. I had to drill that in my mind for a long time because I have a pretty strong serve and it brings me in the court. And then I would just stay like two feet out of the baseline and hit my third from there and I’d probably hit it crunched up. So when I hit that serve, then I kind of reset like at the baseline or like a foot back. That has definitely improved my third shot drive and drop. Transitioning to dinking—when do you use a two-handed backhand versus a one-handed dink?
Josh (09:22)
Yeah, for sure. In this scenario, you’d be on the left side, right? When you are in control of the point and you do not have to move as much—the ball bounces right up to you or the ball didn’t bounce so far that you can’t get behind it—as long as you can get behind that ball and it’s not an aggressive ball, that’s when I would use my two hands. If you can’t get behind the ball, you’re going to pop it up. If they’ve hit good pace at you, you are probably going to pop it up. So really it’s when you’re more in control of the point.
As soon as they get aggressive and you have to get the one-hander, it’s for being behind the ball. If you’re not behind the ball, you gotta go one. And if they’re hitting like a relatively aggressive dink, you probably need to go one as well. The pros are getting better at hitting it when there’s pace hit at them and being able to redirect it, but that’s a very high-level move.
I’m also a big proponent of not really drilling dinking until you’re at like a 4.0 or 4.5 level. It shouldn’t be a main part of your drilling routine because even at a 5.0 level, there’s not a ton of dinking going on. We have a video on YouTube called the Four Phases of Pickleball: serve, return, transition, dinking, and volleying. Most of those balls until you get to like a 6.0-plus level are going to be in serve, return, and transition. You are going to be surprised by how little you actually dink. Get really good at those first four balls. When you get to a 4.0 or 4.5 level and you notice you’re dinking more, that’s the time to be drilling dinking.
Elliott (12:19)
Okay, yeah. How do you neutralize these “bangers” who refuse to play the soft game? Do you try to make them play the soft game or do you bring heat back to them?
Josh (12:41)
Right. Yeah, that’s a great question. I think it really depends on your goals. If your goal is just to win the game and not to get better at pickleball—let’s say you’re at a 4.5 level or even 3.5—I probably am not the right person to tell you how to do that because I don’t believe in that. I believe that you should always be trying to get better.
Blocking the ball just gives them a free ride to the kitchen; you’re doing exactly what they want you to do. So my answer would be: don’t worry about winning the game. Worry about getting better at pickleball. In order to get better, you’re going to have to learn how to put those right back down the pipe. You need to learn how to volley on your fourth and volley hard and just punish it. Yeah, you’re going to be comically bad at it at first, but over time, you’re going to get so much better.
You need to get really good at letting out balls go. They hit balls out of bounds constantly and you’re just hitting them really high and letting them get away with it. As soon as a banger starts to notice balls go out, they actually start to hit a lot softer. You need to be willing to let balls go shoulder high—let it fly. If the ball is medium height and it’s going to be in, then you pound it back. See it as a learning opportunity. Every time you see a banger, you should be like, “Awesome. I’m really weak at this. This is going to be a great game for me to get better.”
We talk about this at the Lab—don’t play for your ego or your insecurity. If you go into games playing that way, you’re not going to play to get better; you’re going to play to try to win. Play to get better. Don’t try to play to win in your rec games. The more balls that you see come fast at you, the easier it becomes. It’s like an MLB hitter—when they were in fifth grade, they saw an 80 mile per hour pitch and thought that was a lot of gas. Well, now they’re in the MLB and they’ve seen 80 miles an hour forever, and that’s basically a change-up to them. It’s just exposure.
Elliott (16:38)
Yeah, I mean, that’s good advice. Being good at volleys is having a good ready position—never want your paddle to be by your side. Keep your paddle in a good ready position. Another thing I wanted to add was really look at where your opponents are in the court. If they’re mid-court taking a huge backswing, you already know that’s probably going to go out.
Josh (17:54)
Yeah, and I also think a big thing on ready position is being ready by the time they strike the ball. Make sure you split step, but really have your paddle out further than you normally would have it. Put it out a little further than normal. This gets you ready to be a little bit more proactive instead of reactive. The further you contact the ball out, the less likely you are to hit the ball in the net and more likely you are to hit into the court. It’s just angles.
Elliott (19:00)
When do you keep dinking and when do you speed up a ball?
Josh (19:29)
Yeah, that’s a great question. I think the typical times most people know to do it is when there’s a dead dink where the ball doesn’t have a lot of pace and it’s a little higher. Anything a little bit above the knee. If the ball is in the kitchen when you’re about to speed up off the bounce, it’s probably a really bad idea. It needs to be at the kitchen line or behind it, and the bounce needs to be relatively high at the knee.
Out of the air, a general template is if that ball is at the net or higher. The better you get, you can take the ball about four inches below the net. You should be right on the kitchen line when you’re dinking so that you’re always ready for a ball that’s a little too high. If you’re two or three feet off the net, that ball that was high is probably no longer high. You’re looking for a ball out of the air that’s at net height at contact.
Elliott (21:53)
For sure, but I think at the end of the day, consistency is the best. I think you should get in the habit of dinking and get comfortable with it.
Josh (22:19)
Yeah, I think it depends on what you’re trying to work on. Again, that’s what we preach: when you go play, you’re going there to get better, not to win. Lose as much as you want, but you’re going to gain levels a lot quicker if you go there to actually get better. I’m probably not going to try to speed up unless the ball’s out of the air or high enough out of the air for me to speed up. I’m probably not going to speed up off the bounce. A lot of times at that level, speeding up off the bounce is kind of when you panic.
Elliott (22:50)
Yeah, like a desperation move.
Josh (22:52)
Yeah, you’re just giving the ball away. That’s a really good time to work on dealing with your nerves and being like, “You know what? I don’t care that I’m nervous. I’m just going to keep dinking.” And then when you get that high ball, put it away. But I probably wouldn’t speed up off the bounce. I would probably just get used to being consistent because I’m working on dinking. And the better you get at dinking and applying pressure, the more times you’ll actually get to speed up.
Elliott (23:39)
And I do see one consistent thing: in that desperation moment when they don’t have good footwork or they’re off balance, that’s when they speed it up. My biggest advice is only speed up when you’re 100% balanced and in a great position.
Josh (24:17)
Yeah, that’s really good advice. And I would say in that desperation moment, you’re going to have to get really good at hitting a reset dink where you take the pressure completely off by just hitting a dink to the other person. Stop hitting the person who is applying pressure; reset the ball to the middle. Resetting to the middle stops them from being super aggressive. Stop giving people rhythms. Go ahead and go somewhere else—reset the dink to the middle or reset the dink in front of their partner so they can’t be aggressive with it. Don’t let them get in their pattern.
Elliott (25:40)
Last and final question for you: what’s your rule of thumb on split-stepping?
Josh (26:03)
Yeah, it’s a good question. I split step every single time the opponent touches the ball. I serve, they return, I split step. I hit my third, they’re about to hit their fourth, I split step. You gotta get your split step timing down because you need to be split stepping when they hit the ball. That actually means you have to start your split step before they hit it so that you’re landing on the ground as they’re hitting. Split step every single ball that is hit by your opponent, no matter what—the only exception being rapid volleys where you don’t have enough time.
Elliott (27:12)
For sure, absolutely. Yeah, it’s all good stuff, man.
Josh (27:15)
Thanks for jumping on, man. I really appreciate it.
Elliott (27:17)
You’re very welcome. I learned a lot, so I appreciate you.
Josh (27:19)
Yeah, me too. Good. So guys, as always, if you have a question you want us to break down on the podcast, head over to pickleballlab.co and join the Lab for free. We have a dedicated section inside the community where you can leave your questions and we’ll be sure to answer yours on the show the very next week. Thanks so much for tuning into the Pickleball Lab Coaching Podcast. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure you check us out and subscribe on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts. Leave us a five-star review—it really helps us reach more players. And with that, we’ll see you on the next pod next week. See you then.
